|
Post by TrayWithAnA on Jun 25, 2014 23:28:51 GMT -6
I had a really nice response typed up for you, but fucking IE locked up and I lost it.
Lemme retry.
I think QUALIFYING OFFER is being used misleadingly. Think of it this way. First step is the Accept/Decline QO. The QO isn't really an offer that you are making; it's basically saying that you are willing to hold an allotted portion of your cap space because you intend to entertain the opportunity to match/decline bids other teams make on a player that was on your team. Once other teams submit their RFA bids, you'll have that opportunity to match the highest bid (or up it to 5yr super if desired) OR decline to match (player becomes UFA).
If you decline you can still resign your player, but it would then become a external signing and max you could offer is 4yr at 10%.
Now that I got some stuff off my chest some serious questions: 1. I don't think it has been correctly stated here, but it seems every assumption is that someone else will bid on a player. You could end up signing a player that only you bid on for say like 3 years $1.2 mil per (way lower than the QO) correct? 2. It seems this system will actually make the 5 year supermax insignificant, correct? Why offer it now? Not that it's a bad thing, but could any consequences come of this? 1. Yes. QO is essentially the way to keep Pistons and other similar teams from running up the price on Greg Anthony's knowing you'll accept Steve Smith's max and LJ's deal. You have to commit some sort of responsibility toward your actual cap space in this process. 2. Guys like Steve Smith would benefit from being locked up at 5 years. Keep him one less year, max deal on their 9th year is less here than it would be had they hit the market again before 9th year.
|
|
Bowser
Junior Member
San Antonio Spurs
Posts: 865
|
Post by Bowser on Jun 25, 2014 23:32:38 GMT -6
Honestly when this was initially discussed and posted I thought the process was gonna be like this. For example
1. John Doe becomes a FA 2. John Doe makes a contract demand 3. The team John Doe was drafted by and played out his rookie deal with had a choice to either accept or decline and depending on the team decision he would either be resigned or becomes a FA.without other teams bidding until the actual FA period started.
|
|
|
Post by Conroy on Jun 25, 2014 23:36:22 GMT -6
I have no idea what any of this means can I resign Zo yet?
|
|
Soundwave
Full Member
Toronto Raptors
Winter is coming
Posts: 2,465
|
Post by Soundwave on Jun 25, 2014 23:36:39 GMT -6
Honestly when this was initially discussed and posted I thought the process was gonna be like this. For example 1. John Doe becomes a FA 2. John Doe makes a contract demand 3. The team John Doe was drafted by and played out his rookie deal with had a choice to either accept or decline and depending on the team decision he would either be resigned or becomes a FA.without other teams bidding until the actual FA period started. It was. That is changed now. Like I have said, I don't disagree with the new way, just planned the offseason differently so I don't like the timing. But in the long run I do think it is a better system.
|
|
|
Post by IamQuailman on Jun 25, 2014 23:38:03 GMT -6
Sorry if I fucked up explaining any of the rules. Tried my best to step in and help out. Hope I didn't confuse anyone further.
|
|
Soundwave
Full Member
Toronto Raptors
Winter is coming
Posts: 2,465
|
Post by Soundwave on Jun 25, 2014 23:38:55 GMT -6
I have no idea what any of this means can I resign Zo yet? I have a feeling someone big would have gotten a truly sweetheart deal this offseason, that's why the rush to change it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 23:40:25 GMT -6
I have no idea what any of this means can I resign Zo yet? GO TO SLEEP BEFORE I PUT YOU TO SLEEP SMARMY DICKBITCH
|
|
|
Post by TrayWithAnA on Jun 25, 2014 23:41:18 GMT -6
I have no idea what any of this means can I resign Zo yet? I have a feeling someone big would have gotten a truly sweetheart deal this offseason, that's why the rush to change it. Yeah, Steve Smith. Wasn't fair. He's the class of this particular free agent period and should be paid accordingly. Same goes for a few others. Don't know who else you could be referring to here.
|
|
Soundwave
Full Member
Toronto Raptors
Winter is coming
Posts: 2,465
|
Post by Soundwave on Jun 25, 2014 23:44:01 GMT -6
I have a feeling someone big would have gotten a truly sweetheart deal this offseason, that's why the rush to change it. Yeah, Steve Smith. Wasn't fair. He's the class of this particular free agent period and should be paid accordingly. Same goes for a few others. Don't know who else you could be referring to here. Had a feeling it was him. But could have been Augmon or Gatling. Either way, that would not have been fair (for them to sign on a sweetheart deal and no one else got to bid).
|
|
|
Post by TrayWithAnA on Jun 25, 2014 23:46:49 GMT -6
Yeah, Steve Smith. Wasn't fair. He's the class of this particular free agent period and should be paid accordingly. Same goes for a few others. Don't know who else you could be referring to here. Had a feeling it was him. But could have been Augmon or Gatling. Either way, that would not have been fair (for them to sign on a sweetheart deal and no one else got to bid). Don't want to speak to other guys but if smith asked for anything less than the max, then that would have been a travesty in our first class of rookies and I'm not sure I like the way that looks in the future. Only way to get a star is in the draft. Then 9 years later, possibly UFA
|
|
|
Post by Conroy on Jun 26, 2014 0:04:50 GMT -6
Is this a good place to announce the poison pill contract I'll be offering Mike Izzoulino? 4 yrs 8 mill a year but only counts as a 4 mill cap hit after the QO unqualifies and RFA round 1 turns into UFA and I plan on using my MLE to perform said contract offer to sign Mike to an offer sheet?
|
|
J2
Junior Member
Washington Wizards
Posts: 955
|
Post by J2 on Jun 26, 2014 5:17:54 GMT -6
Question:
How will this affect in-season negotiations? Will that only apply to non-rookies from now on (to prevent sweetheart deals for young studs)?
|
|
|
Post by DarthVegito on Jun 26, 2014 6:29:26 GMT -6
I have no idea what any of this means can I resign Zo yet? I have a feeling someone big would have gotten a truly sweetheart deal this offseason, that's why the rush to change it. Just to make it clear, we came up with this yesterday afternoon. This comment makes it sound like it was known what the offers were so we then devised RFA. I can't see offers until the draft is processed, which didn't happen until late last night. Bottom line is this was best for the league as a whole so it was implemented. Like was brought up earlier, the person who came up with this, Tray, RFA probably hurts the most. Further proof that we do our best to improve the league as a whole and never individual GMs. Just wanted to point this out. Carry on.
|
|
|
Post by Inner_GI on Jun 26, 2014 6:57:57 GMT -6
I'm confused, but it doesn't affect me this offseason, so I'll watch it play out. It may be all the bitching in this thread that makes it confusing.
On the surface, I think this sounds good, even if I don't fully understand.
|
|
|
Post by janjanjanjan on Jun 26, 2014 7:01:58 GMT -6
If i knew about this, i wouldnt have signed armstrong to that deal and just let the market dictate his value.
|
|
rpf
Full Member
New Jersey Nets
IDGAF
Posts: 1,743
|
Post by rpf on Jun 26, 2014 7:52:51 GMT -6
color me confused but ill take notes for Rider next offseason
|
|
Soundwave
Full Member
Toronto Raptors
Winter is coming
Posts: 2,465
|
Post by Soundwave on Jun 26, 2014 7:52:58 GMT -6
I do have one big worry.
Now you will have more teams that can't spend money initially in FA. What if these fewer teams that have available money decide it's not even worth it to offer a Smith or Augmon now knowing the owner can just match? That player can then be signed even cheaper. Maybe even to a min if the owner chooses.
|
|
|
Post by TrayWithAnA on Jun 26, 2014 8:01:02 GMT -6
I do have one big worry. Now you will have more teams that can't spend money initially in FA. What if these fewer teams that have available money decide it's not even worth it to offer a Smith or Augmon now knowing the owner can just match? That player can then be signed even cheaper. Maybe even to a min if the owner chooses. The higher offer at that point would be what the player was asking for which was the original plan. Smith and Augmon are almost certainly gonna ask for near max so the owner won't have an option to get the player on that deep a discount.
|
|
Bowser
Junior Member
San Antonio Spurs
Posts: 865
|
Post by Bowser on Jun 26, 2014 8:05:25 GMT -6
I am worried that someone will get fucked over by a rival knowing they are going to resign their player offer a player who's not a max player the max contract, force them to resign at that rate fucking them cap wise.
|
|
Soundwave
Full Member
Toronto Raptors
Winter is coming
Posts: 2,465
|
Post by Soundwave on Jun 26, 2014 8:05:27 GMT -6
I do have one big worry. Now you will have more teams that can't spend money initially in FA. What if these fewer teams that have available money decide it's not even worth it to offer a Smith or Augmon now knowing the owner can just match? That player can then be signed even cheaper. Maybe even to a min if the owner chooses. The higher offer at that point would be what the player was asking for which was the original plan. Smith and Augmon are almost certainly gonna ask for near max so the owner won't have an option to get the player on that deep a discount. Oh, ok. So the cpu bids are still involved with this process.
|
|
|
Post by WigNosy on Jun 26, 2014 8:06:36 GMT -6
I am worried that someone will get fucked over by a rival knowing they are going to resign their player offer a player who's not a max player the max contract, force them to resign at that rate fucking them cap wise. This is a feature, not a bug, of RFA. You are supposed to have tough decisions to make. The risk to the rival though is the incumbent doesn't match and the rival is stuck overpaying for the player and can't trade him for a season.
|
|
Bowser
Junior Member
San Antonio Spurs
Posts: 865
|
Post by Bowser on Jun 26, 2014 8:09:54 GMT -6
I am worried that someone will get fucked over by a rival knowing they are going to resign their player offer a player who's not a max player the max contract, force them to resign at that rate fucking them cap wise. This is a feature, not a bug, of RFA. You are supposed to have tough decisions to make. So if I accept the Qualifying offer why other teams get to bid, shouldn't he should sign with me if I accept.
|
|
|
Post by Conroy on Jun 26, 2014 8:21:05 GMT -6
If i knew about this, i wouldnt have signed armstrong to that deal and just let the market dictate his value. His QO is $3.8M and you've got him at $2.2M flat for 4 years. I think you made out OK. I know his QO is not the contract he would get, but I'd venture to say you got a hefty discount by signing him early, especially since the contract never increases.
|
|
|
Post by WigNosy on Jun 26, 2014 8:21:12 GMT -6
This is a feature, not a bug, of RFA. You are supposed to have tough decisions to make. So if I accept the Qualifying offer why other teams get to bid, shouldn't he should sign with me if I accept. The QO isn't an actual contract. It is "you have this much less cap to bid on other teams' players until you actually agree on a contract with this guy. In exchange, you can match any offer made to him." Concrete example with round numbers: The Hawks have 4 million in cap space. I could make bids starting at 4 million to other teams players. But if I want the right to match offers made to Tharon Mayes I have to accept a cap hold of three million. Now I can only make offers starting at 1 million for other teams players. Thus keeps me from spending 4 million on another player AND getting the benefit of matching Mayes, thus double dipping on my cap space.
|
|
|
Post by Conroy on Jun 26, 2014 8:24:12 GMT -6
This is a feature, not a bug, of RFA. You are supposed to have tough decisions to make. So if I accept the Qualifying offer why other teams get to bid, shouldn't he should sign with me if I accept. The QO is just a cap hold until the actual contract is signed. That is money you can't spend on a different FA while you are negotiating with your RFA. So if you accept a QO of 3M, then that is 3 less million you can spend on other FA's until your RFA is signed...at least that's how I understand it. Example if you have 10M in cap space and your RFA's QO is 3M and you accept it. You now have 7M to spend on other FA's you don't neccessarily sign your RFA to a 3M contract you could negotiate a 2M contract or a different team could offer a 4M contract and while your deciding if you want to match or not you still can't spend that 3M until the RFA either signs with you or another team. If any of this is wrong please tell me and I'll edit it to a funny gif.
|
|