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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 21:11:00 GMT -6
Suppose I tender a QO and nobody bids on my player. Do I have to offer him at least the amount of my cap hold? Can I offer a deal less than 4 years? Can I then elect to waive th QO and let him become an unrestricted FA (and thus use him in a S&T)? 1. If no one offers he falls into FA. You may bid up to a max 5 year 12.5 % deal 2. Once he hits UFA, you may bid whatever you like 3. No; once you renounce the player they become UFA and they will be treated as an external FA. If you kept the cap hold, then you can S&T like any other FA being S&T from your team. (great question).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 21:18:23 GMT -6
What if I had Kobe or LeBron and wanted to offer a super max. Would I decline QO and offer him the Super Max keeping him that extra year? If you felt you had to have him for 5 years. You would Renounce and let them enter FA and offer the 5 year 12.5 % increase. Pretty risky. Edit, you would bid on your own guy in RFA for the max 5 year 12.5 % increase.
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Post by WigNosy on Jun 25, 2014 21:32:37 GMT -6
Edge case: I offer a QO. I bid a 4 year vet min. Nobody else bids.
Do I get him for the vet min or does he fall intoFA?
Edge case 2: I offer a QO. I bid a 4 year max. Nobody else bids.
Does he fall into FA or do I get him at the max?
In other words, does there have to be at least one OTHER bid in on a guy for highest offer to win in RFA? And if there isn't does he fall into UFA (and even if I offered him the max I could lose him to an equal offer a la Pervis?)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 21:43:34 GMT -6
Edge case: I offer a QO. I bid a 4 year vet min. Nobody else bids. Do I get him for the vet min or does he fall intoFA? Edge case 2: I offer a QO. I bid a 4 year max. Nobody else bids. Does he fall into FA or do I get him at the max? In other words, does there have to be at least one OTHER bid in on a guy for highest offer to win in RFA? And if there isn't does he fall into UFA (and even if I offered him the max I could lose him to an equal offer a la Pervis?) #1 Yes #2 Yes Lesson learned, make people pay.
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Soundwave
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Toronto Raptors
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Post by Soundwave on Jun 25, 2014 21:51:43 GMT -6
I would have drafted very differently had I known about this. I do not disagree with the rule for the future or had it been implemented prior to the offseason. I am very, um, displeased that "we" have decided to do this now. But since I have no other option than to play by the rules that "we" decide when "we" decide them, I have a few questions:
1. Is there a hard cap on the cap holds? I see my team will be more than 7 mil over if I keep everyone. 2. Who are "we"? 3. Are "we" ever going to stop changing shit in the dead middle of the process? 4. Are "we" ever gonna act like the 1st class league that "we" claim to be and get "our" shit straight at the appropriate time? 5. Or are "we" just gonna act like a stuck up smarmy bitch when one of us lower class members asks for things to be done in advance?
Thank you kind gentlemen for taking the time out of your very busy tea and crumpet schedule to answer the questions of this measly little peasant. I abide by the laws set forth.
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Post by WigNosy on Jun 25, 2014 21:51:54 GMT -6
If I offer the QO then make an offer... and mineis the only offer, mmay I waive the QO and let him hit UFA? (Obviously my original offer has to stand for a sim but can the player be used to S&T?)
What if there are multiple offers but mine was highest? Can I waive the QO to use the player in a S&T?
I think that is all the nasty edge cases I will think of. Sorry to be a pill
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Post by NOLa. on Jun 25, 2014 21:54:50 GMT -6
I would have drafted very differently had I known about this. I do not disagree with the rule for the future or had it been implemented prior to the offseason. I am very, um, displeased that "we" have decided to do this now. But since I have no other option than to play by the rules that "we" decide when "we" decide them, I have a few questions: 1. Is there a hard cap on the cap holds? I see my team will be more than 7 mil over if I keep everyone. 2. Who are "we"? 3. Are "we" ever going to stop changing shit in the dead middle of the process? 4. Are "we" ever gonna act like the 1st class league that "we" claim to be and get "our" shit straight at the appropriate time? 5. Or are "we" just gonna act like a stuck up smarmy bitch when one of us lower class members asks for things to be done in advance? Thank you kind gentlemen for taking the time out of your very busy tea and crumpet schedule to answer the questions of this measly little peasant. I abide by the laws set forth.
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Soundwave
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Post by Soundwave on Jun 25, 2014 21:56:28 GMT -6
I would have drafted very differently had I known about this. I do not disagree with the rule for the future or had it been implemented prior to the offseason. I am very, um, displeased that "we" have decided to do this now. But since I have no other option than to play by the rules that "we" decide when "we" decide them, I have a few questions: 1. Is there a hard cap on the cap holds? I see my team will be more than 7 mil over if I keep everyone. 2. Who are "we"? 3. Are "we" ever going to stop changing shit in the dead middle of the process? 4. Are "we" ever gonna act like the 1st class league that "we" claim to be and get "our" shit straight at the appropriate time? 5. Or are "we" just gonna act like a stuck up smarmy bitch when one of us lower class members asks for things to be done in advance? Thank you kind gentlemen for taking the time out of your very busy tea and crumpet schedule to answer the questions of this measly little peasant. I abide by the laws set forth. Thanks for answering question 5
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Post by IamQuailman on Jun 25, 2014 21:59:43 GMT -6
I would like to make one clarification with the Cap Hold. The amount for the cap hold is NOT the salary for that player. It is an amount determined based off a percentage of the Max based on the ORIGINAL draft position. The amount you could potentially pay for your player will be different. Think of it as a place holder for your cap while you bid on other RFAs during the RFA stage of FA.
Once the retaining team matches/declines, this cap hold is obsolete.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 22:00:12 GMT -6
If I offer the QO then make an offer... and mineis the only offer, mmay I waive the QO and let him hit UFA? (Obviously my original offer has to stand for a sim but can the player be used to S&T?) What if there are multiple offers but mine was highest? Can I waive the QO to use the player in a S&T? I think that is all the nasty edge cases I will think of. Sorry to be a pill If you make an offer, it can not be rescinded. That stands for the team with RFA rights or anyone else bidding on the player. They would be signed as a RFA and not able to be S&T'd No. You can't rescind after the fact. You will win as a RFA bidder and you will not be able to S&T the player. All good questions Wig. We vetted this out pretty well, but you've done a wonderful job with these. I appreciate it a ton.
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Post by DarthVegito on Jun 25, 2014 22:12:09 GMT -6
I would have drafted very differently had I known about this. I do not disagree with the rule for the future or had it been implemented prior to the offseason. I am very, um, displeased that "we" have decided to do this now. But since I have no other option than to play by the rules that "we" decide when "we" decide them, I have a few questions: 1. Is there a hard cap on the cap holds? I see my team will be more than 7 mil over if I keep everyone. 2. Who are "we"? 3. Are "we" ever going to stop changing shit in the dead middle of the process? 4. Are "we" ever gonna act like the 1st class league that "we" claim to be and get "our" shit straight at the appropriate time? 5. Or are "we" just gonna act like a stuck up smarmy bitch when one of us lower class members asks for things to be done in advance? Thank you kind gentlemen for taking the time out of your very busy tea and crumpet schedule to answer the questions of this measly little peasant. I abide by the laws set forth. I'm just going to tackle the "we" questions. 2. "We" consists of: Myself(Darth), Ballsohard, Iamquailman, Nola., and Traywithana. But you knew that already now didn't you. 3. "We" will change anything anytime we feel something needs to be changed. "We" have just introduced RFA before FA even started. So it's not in the middle of any process. It was important to institute something before this being the first class of rookies. We came up with something a few weeks yet continued to discuss in order to get it just right. This RFA idea was proposed this afternoon for the first time and "we" all thought it was the best way to go and best for the league. 4. You're right, this is a first class league. Know why? Because of "we". Yes, we have a great group of GMs here. No arguing that. But more than any of you know goes on behind the scenes so that all of you can enjoy this league. I bust my ass, but so do the other four guys that make up "we". "We" discuss, we argue, we debate, all for the betterment of this great league. And I have to say, "we" do a great fucking job if I do say so myself. With that being said, if something comes up and "we" feel "we" need to change something...well then "we" will. Bottom line. 5. There something wrong with being a swarmy bitch?? Hope the questions were answered to your liking...peasant.
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Post by IamQuailman on Jun 25, 2014 22:31:30 GMT -6
IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE ASK.
I want to help make sure everyone understands the process
ANOTHER CLARIFICATION: RFA MATCH/DECLINES MADE BY RETAINING TEAMS WILL BE PROCESSED BEFORE UFA SIM 1. YOU WILL KNOW YOUR CAP SITUATION BEFORE ROUND 1 OF FA.
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Post by LoCo89 on Jun 25, 2014 22:54:27 GMT -6
So if we decline, what can be offered to the player in UFA?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 22:57:58 GMT -6
I would have drafted very differently had I known about this. I do not disagree with the rule for the future or had it been implemented prior to the offseason. I am very, um, displeased that "we" have decided to do this now. But since I have no other option than to play by the rules that "we" decide when "we" decide them, I have a few questions: 1. Is there a hard cap on the cap holds? I see my team will be more than 7 mil over if I keep everyone. 2. Who are "we"? 3. Are "we" ever going to stop changing shit in the dead middle of the process? 4. Are "we" ever gonna act like the 1st class league that "we" claim to be and get "our" shit straight at the appropriate time? 5. Or are "we" just gonna act like a stuck up smarmy bitch when one of us lower class members asks for things to be done in advance? Thank you kind gentlemen for taking the time out of your very busy tea and crumpet schedule to answer the questions of this measly little peasant. I abide by the laws set forth. This is admittedly a shot at me by you. That's fine. I'll actually answer the questions that are serious here because i care about the league. 1. There is no hard cap for holds. 2. N/A 3. Honestly, if it's a rule to help the league for the better, should we? We don't think so and apologize if you disagree. We said sorry in post #2. 4. We appreciate you being apart of the league, but won't accept insults. If you feel this isn't a first class league,it's a free country and you have the right to leave. We have our shit straight. If you disagree, again that's you're opinion and you're welcome to it. 5. This is a personal shot and won't be addressed. If you have any other questions please let us know.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 22:58:49 GMT -6
So if we decline, what can be offered to the player in UFA? 4 years @ 10% Max
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Post by LoCo89 on Jun 25, 2014 22:59:52 GMT -6
So if we decline, what can be offered to the player in UFA? 4 years @ 10% Max Gotcha
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Post by TrayWithAnA on Jun 25, 2014 23:02:51 GMT -6
I would have drafted very differently had I known about this. I do not disagree with the rule for the future or had it been implemented prior to the offseason. I am very, um, displeased that "we" have decided to do this now. But since I have no other option than to play by the rules that "we" decide when "we" decide them, I have a few questions: 1. Is there a hard cap on the cap holds? I see my team will be more than 7 mil over if I keep everyone. 2. Who are "we"? 3. Are "we" ever going to stop changing shit in the dead middle of the process? 4. Are "we" ever gonna act like the 1st class league that "we" claim to be and get "our" shit straight at the appropriate time? 5. Or are "we" just gonna act like a stuck up smarmy bitch when one of us lower class members asks for things to be done in advance? Thank you kind gentlemen for taking the time out of your very busy tea and crumpet schedule to answer the questions of this measly little peasant. I abide by the laws set forth. I feel like the reaction is almost predictable each time something is changed, and for that reason we put more thought process into it so that we don't look like a bunch of idiots. We have spent a lot of time trying to come up with a process that makes sense for RFA and this was the best idea that we had to make it work properly. Had we waited a year, this wouldn't have been fair. Had we been smarter, we may have avoided some heart break. That being said, the pitch came from me and I had a lot to gain from a faulty system that we punched holes in in the eleventh hour. This is what's best for the league and what's best for business. The qualifying offer and cap hold keeps people from being a-holes but gives those who take the risk at offering a big deal to run up the price financially accountable for their actions. This RFA is lucky to have happened at all. You will eventually thank us for this. I know that it's not the best look for our group, but honestly, we aren't interested in looking good. We are interested in making this league interesting and fun. This new rule accomplishes both. I'm sorry you passed on a certain position in the draft because of your understanding of how RFA was gonna work. Can't fix that. We're sorry. But this does stop teams like mine from catching a break on guys that deserve to have some risk and makes us pay for guys who we should be paying for. "We" are sorry to do this last minute but "we" would probably do it again in a heart beat if it fixed the RFA problem we were looking at. You see a problem, you fix it. There are currently 5 people on the council to make votes matter. We'll vote to fix issues every time and it is usually unanimous.
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Post by IamQuailman on Jun 25, 2014 23:13:32 GMT -6
I had a really nice response typed up for you, but fucking IE locked up and I lost it.
Lemme retry.
I think QUALIFYING OFFER is being used misleadingly. Think of it this way. First step is the Accept/Decline QO. The QO isn't really an offer that you are making; it's basically saying that you are willing to hold an allotted portion of your cap space because you intend to entertain the opportunity to match/decline bids other teams make on a player that was on your team. Once other teams submit their RFA bids, you'll have that opportunity to match the highest bid (or up it to 5yr super if desired) OR decline to match (player becomes UFA).
If you decline you can still resign your player, but it would then become a external signing and max you could offer is 4yr at 10%.
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Post by WigNosy on Jun 25, 2014 23:21:43 GMT -6
If you decline you can still resign your player, but it would then become a external signing and max you could offer is 4yr at 10%. [/p][/quote] Wait, I am confused. Does declining the QO mean you lose Bird Rights with the player? Balls indicated at the top of page 2 that the only way to offer the 5 year supermax was to decline. Here you say declining limits to 4 years with 10% raises. Which is correct?
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Post by LoCo89 on Jun 25, 2014 23:21:47 GMT -6
I had a really nice response typed up for you, but fucking IE locked up and I lost it.
Lemme retry.
I think QUALIFYING OFFER is being used misleadingly. Think of it this way. First step is the Accept/Decline QO. The QO isn't really an offer that you are making; it's basically saying that you are willing to hold an allotted portion of your cap space because you intend to entertain the opportunity to match/decline bids other teams make on a player that was on your team. Once other teams submit their RFA bids, you'll have that opportunity to match the highest bid (or up it to 5yr super if desired) OR decline to match (player becomes UFA).
If you decline you can still resign your player, but it would then become a external signing and max you could offer is 4yr at 10%.
Yea, I got that it works like regular NBA rfa, I just needed the number since it wasn't covered, but uh thanks
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 23:22:56 GMT -6
If you decline you can still resign your player, but it would then become a external signing and max you could offer is 4yr at 10%. [/p] I edit'd that. You can offer you own players during RFA. Ie you have lebron, you can send an offer during RFA for the 5 year 12.5 % raise and you'll have the highest bid therefore you accept.
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Soundwave
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Toronto Raptors
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Post by Soundwave on Jun 25, 2014 23:23:55 GMT -6
I had a really nice response typed up for you, but fucking IE locked up and I lost it.
Lemme retry.
I think QUALIFYING OFFER is being used misleadingly. Think of it this way. First step is the Accept/Decline QO. The QO isn't really an offer that you are making; it's basically saying that you are willing to hold an allotted portion of your cap space because you intend to entertain the opportunity to match/decline bids other teams make on a player that was on your team. Once other teams submit their RFA bids, you'll have that opportunity to match the highest bid (or up it to 5yr super if desired) OR decline to match (player becomes UFA).
If you decline you can still resign your player, but it would then become a external signing and max you could offer is 4yr at 10%.
Now that I got some stuff off my chest some serious questions: 1. I don't think it has been correctly stated here, but it seems every assumption is that someone else will bid on a player. You could end up signing a player that only you bid on for say like 3 years $1.2 mil per (way lower than the QO) correct? 2. It seems this system will actually make the 5 year supermax insignificant, correct? Why offer it now? Not that it's a bad thing, but could any consequences come of this?
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Soundwave
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Post by Soundwave on Jun 25, 2014 23:26:11 GMT -6
[/p] You mean UP to 5 years 12.5%, correct? I feel that is being missed. It almost seems like we have no other option than give a supermax.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 23:26:47 GMT -6
I had a really nice response typed up for you, but fucking IE locked up and I lost it.
Lemme retry.
I think QUALIFYING OFFER is being used misleadingly. Think of it this way. First step is the Accept/Decline QO. The QO isn't really an offer that you are making; it's basically saying that you are willing to hold an allotted portion of your cap space because you intend to entertain the opportunity to match/decline bids other teams make on a player that was on your team. Once other teams submit their RFA bids, you'll have that opportunity to match the highest bid (or up it to 5yr super if desired) OR decline to match (player becomes UFA).
If you decline you can still resign your player, but it would then become a external signing and max you could offer is 4yr at 10%.
Now that I got some stuff off my chest some serious questions: 1. I don't think it has been correctly stated here, but it seems every assumption is that someone else will bid on a player. You could end up signing a player that only you bid on for say like 3 years $1.2 mil per (way lower than the QO) correct? 2. It seems this system will actually make the 5 year supermax insignificant, correct? Why offer it now? Not that it's a bad thing, but could any consequences come of this? 1. Correct. Not all bids will be max . 2. Not really, someone may offer a 5 year 12.5 % increase for a star. They may want the extra year assurance versus the 4 year deal.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 23:28:21 GMT -6
The question was if we could send the 12.5 % max raise for 5 years. Yes that is the max for the retaining team.
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